Kala Kaumudi Exclusive - Love Jihad, Conversions, and counterfeit currency for destroying Kerala
13/07/2012 11:14:46  Courtesy:http://ghatotkacha-nair.blogspot.in/2012/07/english-translation-of-kalakaumudi.html



Copies of this Kalakaumudi Weekly which came out with a Exclusive report on
Love Jihad, Conversions, and counterfeit currency for destroying Kerala, were purchased in lots and destroyed within hours of it reaching the newsstands all over
Kerala! Only very few copies were available the next day.  Kala Kaumudi is a well known weekly in Kerala (Known for it's Liberal and Leftist outlook ). The report is said to be based on the report of Indian intelligence agencies submitted to the Home Department!





Love Jihad, Conversions, and counterfeit currency for destroying Kerala



By P.D. Shelvaraj

SOURCE: TRANSLATED FROM KALAA KAUMUDI WEEKLY (MALAYALAM) DATED JUNE 10, 2012 PUBLISHED FROM THIRUVANANTHAPURAM.

Indian intelligence agencies have got hold of a blueprint about foreign separatist groups’ plans to alienate Muslims from the mainstream society of Kerala and to make them pawns in their hands. The first agenda of this blueprint is to alienate a minimum of 5% of the SC/ST backward communities in Kerala, which make up about 9% of total Hindu population, joining them to the Muslim community, and initiating them into terrorist activities. Systematic introduction of counterfeit currency to destroy the economic system of Kerala, conversion by taking advantage of poverty, conversion by feigning love and subsequently marriage, etc., are the ways in which this secret agenda is being carried out. From 2006 till date, about 6000 people have converted in Kerala. More than half of those converted are young women. Around 100 to 180 young women are converting every month in Kerala. – After reading this report, if you feel like looking at a section of Muslims with extreme hatred, then you too are fit to be in the same line as those of the separatists. One should approach this blueprint of destruction of Kerala’s peace and harmony with equanimity.


Overview of the report:

Of late, a discreet file reached the special desk of the Home Ministry in New Delhi. The file contained intelligence information about the circulation of counterfeit currencies by migrant workers from other states in Kerala, infiltration of people with separatist thinking into the mainstream society and into politics, maoist training camps in forests, foreign aids received by various religious organizations, conversions, etc.

The section titled “Foreign aid to various religious organizations and conversions,” starts with the information leaked to the intelligence agencies. The leaked report says, “The minority Muslims in Kerala should take the help of Hindus to achieve their rights.” The report then elaborates as follows starting with the statistics about the population growth in Kerala for the last 50 years:

Muslims were 17% of the total population in Kerala in 1961. It became 24.6 in 2001. According to the census in 2012, it has become 27%. Even after this tremendous population growth in the last 50 years, Muslims are still unable to achieve what is rightfully theirs. It is here that taking the help of Hindus comes into picture. Out of the 55% Hindus in Kerala, about 9% belongs to the backward communities of SC and ST. Out of these at least 5% should be alienated from the Hindu society and made pro-Muslim. When that happens, with the support of 32%(27+5) population of Kerala, Muslims will be able to prove their strength in Kerala.

After a thorough investigation by the investigative agencies on the lines of this leaked report, shocking facts have come to surface.

Terrorist groups have already infiltrated and firmly established their roots inside these communities that were supposed to be “alienated.” These communities are closer to Muslims and Christians instead of being close to Hindus! The upper caste Hindus do not raise their hands in support of these communities and have abandoned them completely.

The above report also states that the number of Hindus and Christians is dwindling in Kerala. In 1961, Hindus constituted 60% of the population and have now decreased to 55%. The Christian population which was 22% at that time has reduced to 19% now. One of the main reasons that is being held responsible for this is that even after converting to Christianity, they choose to maintain their Hindu identity in order to avail all the facilities meted out to them.

There is a secret plan underway to instigate the Muslim community into separatist tendencies and this is also being achieved through the sizeable presence of muslim migrant workers from other states, says the report. These migrant workers number around 14 lakhs and their number is enough to decide 14 MLAs in the Kerala assembly. More than half of these workers are Bengalis and majority of these are Bangladeshi muslims who have illegally migrated to India. They have become a part and parcel of Kerala. Construction workers in the beginning, they have now have become domestic helps too! As such, their health problems too have reached the dining tables of a Malayalee. This is a big problem indeed, but what is more disturbing is the fact that the participation of these workers in various illegal and criminal acts. The workers from Bangladesh make up the majority of those who are arrested in the counterfeit currency cases that have become a regular feature in Kerala now. The counterfeit currencies printed in Pakistan are smuggled into Bhaarat through Bangladesh by the Pakistani spy agency ISI. According to the report received by the Home Department, it is due to the circulation of counterfeit currency in such large numbers that the cost of one cent of land in Karunagappaly recently rose to around one crore. Most of purchases are carried out as benami land deals by unknown persons. In spite of this serious situation, Kerala police has failed to extract much information about these migrant workers, the reason being that these workers come under the Labour Department and Labour Department has insufficient resources to identify and document information about these 14 lakh workers!


District wise conversion statistics:


The shocking part of the report unfolds now, the statistics of the ongoing conversions in Kerala. Since January 2009 till March of this year, 3902 people have converted in Kerala. Out of these 3812 people have converted to Islam! Those converted to Christianity are 79. Only 8 people have converted to Hinduism. Out of the 3902 who have converted to Islam, 1596 are young women!! Even though financial help in the face of poverty is one of the reasons for conversion, majority of these conversions are through the love net.

During this period, the number of people who have converted in the Thiruvananthapuram, the state capital, is 92. Out of these, 48 Hindus have converted to Christianity within the city limits. 3 Hindus converted to Islam. Out of the 48 that have converted to Christianity, 13 are young Hindu women. The 3 Hindus who have converted to Islam are also young women! The conversion to Islam is in large numbers in the outskirts of the city and villages. 40 Hindus have converted to Islam in the villages in Thiruvananthapuram, out of which 13 are young women. Only one Christian has converted to Islam.

In Kasargod district, 28 Hindus and 3 Christians, a total of 31 people are documented to have converted to Islam. Out of the 28 Hindus, 3 are young women.

The least reported conversions are from Kottayam and Wayanad districts. From 2009 to 2012, only one person has converted, a Christian converted to Islam. In Wayanad only one conversion, that of a Hindu woman to Christianity has been reported during this period.

The majority of the conversions (2137) reported are from Malappuram district. 1786 Hindus have converted to Islam. 349 Christians have also converted to Islam. It is unclear whether all those who converted basically belong to Malappuram or not. People from outside Malappuram district are also brought for conversion in the Islamic conversion centre functioning in Malappuram and to continue further study of Islam. Out of those converted, 851 are young women again.

A total of 26 people converted in Kollam district, out of which 9 are Hindus including one woman have converted to Islam. 9 Hindus have converted to Christianity including a woman. Total Hindus who converted were 18 in number. 6 Muslims have converted to Christianity including 4 women. One Muslim woman and a Christian woman have converted to Hinduism in Kollam.

In Kozhikode, 1269 people including 495 young women have converted to Islam. Out of those converted to Islam, 1006 are Hindus including 384 young women and 263 are Christians including 111 young women.

In Pathanamthitta, 20 people including 13 young women have converted. Out of these, 9 converted from Hinduism to Christianity, 3 Hindus converted to Islam, 3 Muslims became Hindus, and 3 Christians became Muslims. During this period, in Pathanamthitta, one Muslim has converted to Christianity and one Christian converted to Hinduism.

Out of the 8 people who converted in Idukki district, 7 are young women. 4 Hindus including 3 young women converted to Christianity whereas one young Hindu woman converted to Islam. One Muslim woman converted to Christianity whereas another one converted to Hinduism. Those converted during this period in Idukki district include one Christian woman.

In Ernakulam district, all the conversions since 2009 are entirely into the Muslim community. One Christian woman and a Hindu youth embraced Islam within the city limits. In the outskirts of the city, 5 Hindus including a young woman converted to Islam whereas 6 Christians including one woman became Muslims.

The above statistics are over a period of 2-1/4 years starting from 2009. If we take into account the conversions since 2006, the numbers would double. 6129 people have converted in Kerala since 2006 - Community wise, Brahmins 25, Nairs 700, Izhavas 1228, Christians 1132, Vishwakarma 395, SC 1376, other Hindus 1273.


“Love Jihad”:

If we take into account those cases that have not been reported, the numbers would rise further. The inference from this report is that on an average 100 to 180 conversions are taking place among young women in Kerala every month. A sizeable amount is that of those who converted to Islam after “love” marriages, part of the now infamous “Love Jihad.” The report also points to some of the reported cases of “Love Jihad” and subsequent marriages that had caused a tremendous uproar in the society. The report especially mentions that cases of the following young women that had taken the Kerala society by storm, i.e., that of Keertana (21) from Palakkad Engineering College, Vaidehi Nair (22) of Palakkad Victoria who committed suicide, Premalatha (20) of the Palakkad Shrikrushnapuram College, Vishnupriya (19) a nurse from Kottayam, Reshma (21) from Royal ITC Irinjalakkuda, Seethalakshmi (21) TTC student, Rajani (22) who committed suicide, MBA students Mithula and Bino Jacob from St. John’s Pathanamthitta. The whereabouts and the present status of those who converted thus is unknown so far.

The report that the Kerala Police submitted to the high court suggests that around 2500 girls have fallen into the trap of “Love Jihad” since the year 2005. (But an affidavit stating exactly the opposite was submitted by the Government of Kerala later in the high court. This led to the official stand that “Love Jihad” is nonexistent. As of now, this report establishes the fact that “Love Jihad” was operational in Kerala and that it is still continuing!)

The report further states that “Love Jihad” continues unabated by equally targeting the upper caste families of Hindus and prosperous Christian families in Kerala. Professional colleges and technical institutes are the chosen arena for this. The first target of these separatists is economically weak Muslim boys who have got admission in these same institutions. These boys are given facilities akin to the Muslim boys from prosperous families. They are lured into this by giving them monetary help for their education. The next step of these separatists is to instigate these boys to organize various cultural activities and give away prizes to non-Muslim girls in order to lure them. Those who are attracted are given opportunity to be in close contact with Muslim girls. After these initial preparations, the plot for the “holy war” of love is put into action - the report states.

The separatists do not hesitate ask for help from criminals belonging to the Hindu or Christian communities in this. An infamous goonda from Ernakulam is a witness to 10 such marriages. The people who have thus declared their support to “Love Jihad” include Abdul Jabbar alias Verghese Joseph who was killed in Kashmir by the Indian Army and Mani who was the accomplice of Abdul Nasar Madani in jail.

The report also states that these separatists can go to any extent to convert these girls who have been trapped in the love net. A case in Thiruvananthapuram is such an example. A girl from a prosperous family eloped with their Muslim driver. When they were caught by the Police, the driver confessed that he was “married and had children.” When the girl was asked about living with such a person, the answer given by the girl was shocking: “I am going to convert. He will be able to marry me definitely after I convert.”

This answer was the result of powerful brainwashing. Non-muslims leading an isolated life are also the targets for conversion and the separatists work very hard to achieve this, says the report. There are organizations exclusively working towards successfully conducting these “holy” love marriages. The report explicitly mentions the various Islamic councils active in Kerala that working towards converting others. One of the councils converts from 500 to 700 people every year. Those wishing to convert should come and stay in the conversion centres for studying Islam. Certificates are issued after that. They are also given memberships of the Mahallu committees in their home towns to work in close association with them.

Statistics of conversions by an Islamic council in Malabar are elaborated in the report. Those who converted to Islam in 2007 were 627 including 441 Hindus and 186 Christians. 885 people in 2008 – 727 Hindus, 158 Christians. 674 in 2009 – 566 Hindus and 108 Christians. 664 in 2010 – 566 Hindus and 98 Christians. 393 in 2011 – 305 Hindus and 88 Christians. Young women constitute a majority of those who convert. In a raid at such a conversion centre in 2008, 17 people who were staying there for getting converted were arrested.

Along with luring non-Muslims, separatists are alert about not letting Muslim women talk to the youth from other communities, the report says with examples. The “Moral Police” active Malabar is an example of this. Recently, a policeman was a victim of cruel beating by this “Moral Police” when he committed the crime of talking to one of his Muslim ex-students (a girl) whom he met on the way. Within minutes of his conversation, the “Moral Police” arrived on swift bikes and asked him his name and beat him black and blue – says the report.


Moderate and Secular Muslims silenced:

Individual Muslims or organizations that are either secular or moderate are also targets of these separatists and they are either brought on to their side or silenced regarding all this and the separatists can go to any extent to achieve this. Such Muslims are harassed and made the target of the media by accusing them in various ways. They are also harassed by registering false complaints against them in Police stations and courts. Afraid of this, many moderate Muslim leaders are forced to work on the same platforms as the separatist leaders. About 10% of the members of the organizations like DYFI and Youth Congress is constituted by these separatist leaders who have infiltrated into these organizations – the report points out. In certain isolated cases, these individuals or organizations are forced to maintain silence because of the threat from these 10% separatists. The separatists also try to prevent Muslim women from working in Hindu families as housemaids.

According to the Indian constitution, an Indian citizen has the right to believe in any religion that he chooses. Consequently, converting from one religion to another is not a crime in India. But since majority of these conversions are happening only in one direction, this raises suspicion about these conversions – says the report. Why is it that the reverse does not happen? Only 8 Muslim women have married non-Muslims via “love marriages” since 2008. The reports exclusively points to the fact that these separatists, the creators of “Love Jihad,” have a definite discreet plan to isolate the Muslim community from the mainstream Kerala society and that we should be alert against these tendencies.

Note: Copies of this weekly magazine were purchased in lots by Muslims and destroyed within hours of it reaching the newsstands all over Kerala! Only very few copies were available the next day.



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ashwini
05/10/2012 07:27:31
Conversion
First of all we,the hindu,must know ,why these conversions are making? In"viraat-bharat",there was no problems of hindu,islamists,chistians&so more !All were same in india from sri lanka to east persia! Some false&destructive traditions& practices made hindus divided by some puranas ,upanishads,smritis&greedy elements !Result ! So many social brake-up !benefit of our divisions took the aliens & made coversions by swords,money,love&biggest by so called pseudo-secularism ! Then first of all,hindus must unite above castes,gotras,regions ! Vedas are supreme court for hindus&all problems created by puranas,,smritis&others must be settled with vedas!Like"varn-vyavastha" in vedas ,merriages must be done with professions within&within hinduism!vedas never prevents inter-caste,inter-religion merriages! Unless ,all hindus will crey widow-song after each conversion.islamists&christians are doing as directed in quran&bible!&they both have mission&missionaries,but hindu-pith&maths are collecting only cash&kinds !
ashwini
05/10/2012 07:27:31
Conversion
First of all we,the hindu,must know ,why these conversions are making? In"viraat-bharat",there was no problems of hindu,islamists,chistians&so more !All were same in india from sri lanka to east persia! Some false&destructive traditions& practices made hindus divided by some puranas ,upanishads,smritis&greedy elements !Result ! So many social brake-up !benefit of our divisions took the aliens & made coversions by swords,money,love&biggest by so called pseudo-secularism ! Then first of all,hindus must unite above castes,gotras,regions ! Vedas are supreme court for hindus&all problems created by puranas,,smritis&others must be settled with vedas!Like"varn-vyavastha" in vedas ,merriages must be done with professions within&within hinduism!vedas never prevents inter-caste,inter-religion merriages! Unless ,all hindus will crey widow-song after each conversion.islamists&christians are doing as directed in quran&bible!&they both have mission&missionaries,but hindu-pith&maths are collecting only cash&kinds !
ashwini
05/10/2012 07:27:31
Conversion
First of all we,the hindu,must know ,why these conversions are making? In"viraat-bharat",there was no problems of hindu,islamists,chistians&so more !All were same in india from sri lanka to east persia! Some false&destructive traditions& practices made hindus divided by some puranas ,upanishads,smritis&greedy elements !Result ! So many social brake-up !benefit of our divisions took the aliens & made coversions by swords,money,love&biggest by so called pseudo-secularism ! Then first of all,hindus must unite above castes,gotras,regions ! Vedas are supreme court for hindus&all problems created by puranas,,smritis&others must be settled with vedas!Like"varn-vyavastha" in vedas ,merriages must be done with professions within&within hinduism!vedas never prevents inter-caste,inter-religion merriages! Unless ,all hindus will crey widow-song after each conversion.islamists&christians are doing as directed in quran&bible!&they both have mission&missionaries,but hindu-pith&maths are collecting only cash&kinds !
Nemo
03/08/2012 04:32:08
Back to the topic of love crusade=love jihad (relevant news that got eclipsed by christians trying diversionary tactics)
Adds to the main article above:

The Christian Love Crusade goes on at gunpoint in the northeast, against "tribals"--code for unconverted natives. Unlike islam, christianism has even made a lucrative business of it: native women raped at gunpoint by the NLFT to make porn movies that FUND further christian terrorism.

1. First, recollect that NLFT=christian terror outfit:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/717775.stm
"Church backing Tripura rebels" - BBC News, 18 April, 2000

"The NLFT is accused of forcing Tripura's indigenous tribes to become Christians and give up Hindu forms of worship in areas under their control. Last year, they issued a ban on the Hindu festivals of Durga Puja and Saraswati Puja. The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura.
The Baptist Church in Tripura was set up by missionaries from New Zealand 60 years ago. It won only a few thousand converts until 1980 when in the aftermath, of the state's worst ethnic riot, the number of conversions grew."

2. Now news of the christian love crusade against Hindus:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4190570.stm
Aug, 2005 "India rebels 'making porn films'"
"Rebels in India's north-eastern state of Tripura are making pornographic films to RAISE MONEY FOR THEIR SEPARATIST campaign, officials say.
The information has come from surrendered guerrillas of the National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), according to police. They say the rebels are forcing captured tribal women, and some men, to take part in the films.
The former guerrillas of the NLFT have told police their leaders not only sexually abused scores of tribal girls recruited into the rebel army but also used them - and some male guerrillas - to produce scores of porn films, officials say."

3. India in general:
"The 2005 edition of the World Christian Database (worldchristiandatabase.org) says that India is now 6% Christian."

copy @ christianaggression.org
Varghese
02/08/2012 15:52:58
To Nemo
Ha Ha I am surprised to see that Nemo is still active with his useless research. What ever Mr. Nemo argues it is not going to buy by the Kerala public. People of Kerala are more progressive and have the right thinking. You better go for some work and relax yourself than doing this stupid research. The sad part is I didnt see any concrete discussion on this page when some important topic is brought by "Keralakaumudi" a mainstream weekly whether true or false.
Nemo
02/08/2012 07:48:04
"Avoid labeling people" lectured the same mathew who threatened that Hindus should "quit India" if they ceased to tolerate intolerant christianism
Desperate = the christians who keep invading HK:
1. they keep insinuating their christian selves on a *Hindu* site and 2. offer no facts to back up their accusations--yet are *still* talking (why do they do it, if not out of desperation? Q.E.D.)


- Quoting facts verbatim from books, articles, news etc., to disprove christian lying and accusations, invariably results in verbosity.
- It's most easy for christians to lie in their short, Mere Assertions.
Of course, where christians go wrong is in imagining they'll get away with it. So that when they then see facts in response which disprove their accusations, they grow all afraid and screech in greater desperation and inanity.


Also, mathew can save his lectures on not "labeling people" for his co-religionist from Syria, Varghese, who abuses north Indians as "northi". And Shan Joseph who also insinuates in christian fashion that being north Indian is a crime, when he knowingly lied that I must be one (had already said I'm from the south in answer to Varghese's earlier accusation). Northern christians are warned: Syrian and southern Indian christians don't like you.
Whereas I understand that Haindava Kerala, being a Hindu site, welcomes southern Hindus from beyond Kerala and Hindus north of that too. (It's a Hindu thing.)
mathew
01/08/2012 08:33:00
Better way...
Nemo, obviously you are desperate to make your point. Why not try a more effective, better alternative than these convoluted essays? Can you state your point in a few words, say 5 simple sentences?

Also please avoid labeling people. It is a poor way to score debate brownies.
Nemo
31/07/2012 06:09:54
Cryptochristian Siddharth's obvious casteism: like the christian media, threatens to use "dalits" for communities who don't call themselves that (as is DOCUMENTED!)
The REAL casteists: those who namedrop caste for ulterior (=christian) purposes, eg for diverting from the topic of christianism's genocide of India's native religionists, showing christianism=islam.
Siddharth doesn't even know None Call Themselves "Dalit" (minus perhaps converts to "casteless" religions that nevertheless recognise "dalits"):
ALAN MARRIOTT's "Dalit or Harijan? Self-Naming by Scheduled Caste Interviewees" states:"The terms harijan and dalit have evolved over the last many decades, with the latter more or less replacing the former in published works of recent years. What do members of the scheduled castes call themselves?...The data from the National Family Health Survey of 1998-99 suggests they STRONGLY PREFER HARIJAN TO DALIT. ...WHILE HARIJAN (or harizan or some other spelling) WAS USED by 1351 respondents in 18 different states, and a number of respondents used scheduled caste, NOT ONE respondent CHOSE DALIT." [copy @ letindiadevelop.org/irochtc/Dalit%20or%20Harijan.pdf]
Where they didn't just list their HINDU jati, most said they're "Harijan", i.e. HINDUS (not christian/muslim/Buddhist/Ambedkar's Neo-buddhism): recognising they're directly descended from their Vedic Gods Vishnu & Indra (whose personal name's Hari).
*Despite* Gandhi, they choose to use the term: clearly--like all Hindus--Harijan know *exactly* who their Divine Parents are & hence who they are. And that's exactly why the christian media always tries to bury HINDU victims of islam's casteist atrocities as anonymous "dalits".
The paper ends:"the scale of the difference in the use of dalit and harijan suggests that there is a real contrast in the preferred name chosen by external commentators and SC people themselves."
India's CHRISTIAN media deliberately tags them "dalits" in total disregard of their utter non-identification with the term & Siddharth also shows the same CHRISTIAN DISDAIN for the CHOSEN identity of the very people he pretends to champion. =Pinnacle of casteism.
Nemo
31/07/2012 06:09:54
Mathew's christianism is all uncomfortable about the cut 'n paste stuff in my comments: *therefore* the direct quotes in my comments Must be important!
How christian of mathew to make lame excuses of: "it is tedious (and not necessary)to go through the twists and turns of your reams of cut-paste essay"
He *cannot* respond let alone refute the quoted facts. The worst accusation he can throw at them (as always) is that they are "merely" cut-and-paste, even though they're cut and pasted from *historians* who are moreover quoting *verbatim* from British records and British commentators of the very time in question (as also from treacherous christian converts fawning all over their christian British masters).

All my comments here were in response to instigating christian accusations, though they weren't really meant for the instigating christians (the various mathews, vargheses, cryptochristians like "siddharths", etc). The comments--as all those by diligent Hindus at HK and elsewhere--are for educational purposes: to impart Documented Verifiable information that christianism conceals and doesn't want others to find out, even as christianism repeatedly insists on making accusations against Hindus that are demonstrably untenable. (The comments do have the side-effect of exacerbating the ever-volatile christians who will readily spew hateful lies at Hindus but can't stand facts in retaliation that disprove the christian lies). Unlike christianism=islam, Hindus don't ask for "blind faith": most of my comments on this page support themselves with documented data and tend to provide links that allow verification of the (reliability of the) sources.
Christians here don't want people to read the direct quotes nor consult the cited sources for themselves. Whenever I come across such christian behaviour (eg. the catholic church putting historian and ex-catholic priest Joseph McCabe's books about the history of christianism on the "list of forbidden books"), my first response has always been to look up the works. And I've always extracted great benefit from the knowledge, especially as such works tend to be verifiable.
Nemo
31/07/2012 04:09:54
Mathew would theorise without evidence. AGAIN. But two can play that game (and non-christians can do so with better reasoning!)
1. How very christian of mathew--unable to refute documentation that goes counter to his claims--to resort to blindly reiterating his assertions, but this time in even more general, wishy-washy "and yet it must still be as I said, as seen from my own convenient, highly-theoretical point of view."

*Considering* a theoretical point of view, then (and a more reasonable one than mathew's christian insinuations, at that):

While it's obviously from the english-educated classes that the British could hire their native civil servants (but: 1. in this also, the proportional participation from the christian community was extremely high; and 2. although sepoys & laskars didn't need to be quite as literate in order to die for the christian british empire on demand), consider the proportion within each community of Indians who weren't moreover merely appointed as civil servants under the British, but who specifically cheered christian British rule for representing their own, then insisted that the Brits remain to rule the nation and then cheered colonialism thereafter. These were notably--standout--christian. SUPPORTING sample EVIDENCE for all 3 cases was provided IN my EARLIER COMMENTS.

2. "externalize the guilt by shifting the blame, by making it a religion thing."
No. The matter IS about religion, as christianism has always insisted it is. Back in Rome. Back when the Syrian christian refugees broke Hindu temples & committed treason. Under the christian colonials. And now.
And no: no one "shifted" the blame of the Rwandan genocide "onto" christianism either. The guilt is solely christianism's, as even the American journal paper I linked to (and its references) insist: *christianism* genocided Rwandans.
Timothy Longman paper (VASSAR COLLEGE) "CHRISTIAN CHURCHES AND GENOCIDE IN RWANDA"
@ faculty.vassar.edu/tilongma/Church&Genocide.html
prepared for the "Conference on Genocide, Religion, and Modernity" (United States Holocaust Memorial Museum)
Shan Joseph
31/07/2012 03:13:37
Understand youngsters and do not spread HATRED
@Nemo, Hindu's should wake up now rather blaming others for looting thier own house. Nemo is not a Keralaite, he is operating from somewhere North India, that is why he is copy pasting from internet. Kerala is totally different from other parts of India. Teach your children our culture and heritage, practice Hinduism then your children will follow it. Proper co-ordination is very much needed and if possible meet you people on every sundays at your temple permisses for at least one hour, some can teach Hindu values and teaching to younger ones and others can offer prayers, conduct meetings etc.

I am proud of being an Indian and values the Hindu teachings even though I am practising Catholisism. We should not spread hatred among people but give others love. Love your teen kinds and respect your parents then nobody will think of jumping from one religion to other simply "Love Jihad".
mathew
28/07/2012 20:57:09
Twists and Turns..
@Nemo, it is tedious (and not necessary)to go through the twists and turns of your reams of cut-paste essay; The plain fact is the colonial rule of the British (an example)was administered on the natives almost exclusively by the (so-called)upper castes. A look at a list of who administered the Civil and other Services imposed upon the natives by the British to oppress them is enough to show this. The (so-called) upper castes always collaborated with the colonizers to administer their (the colonizers') rule on the natives. It is a fact. It is not a religion thing: in plainspeak, the classes who had the social advantages always stood with the colonizer because they knew which side of the bread was buttered.

In the present day politics we see the progeny of these very same classes cleverly trying to externalize the guilt by shifting the blame, by making it a religion thing. This artifice is not working because people are too aware these days and History is immutable.
Nemo
26/07/2012 06:57:04
I - Varghese, like his dabbling granddad, clearly doesn't understand that Kalaripayattu is Deeply Vedic: it's of the very Upa-vedas of the Yajur & Rig Vedas
1. Varghese referring to his great-granddad's dabbling in Kalaripayattu carries as much weight as Syrian catholic Leela Samson's future great-grandchild pointing to Samson's playing at Bharatanatyam as "evidence" that "christians and/or christianism should have equal access to Bharatanatyam".

Just because your ancestor was allegedly taught Kalaripayattu the way Leela Samson was criminally taught Bharatanatyam (by Hindus who ought to have known they shouldn't teach Hindu religious practices to christians/muslims/foreigners and the like), doesn't mean Kalari or Bharatanatyam etc have become "arts" of "all Indians" let alone of christianism inclusive.

There's nothing "Indian" (or art) about either. They are both deeply *religious* Hindu practices, as all know: like Bharatanatyam is a Hindu temple dance originating in the Hindu Gods themselves (as all Hindu dances do), and Carnatic music is directly derived from the Sama vedam, Kalaripayattu is of the DhanurVeda & Ayurveda. Neither of which have anything to do with christianism, and have everything to do with the (Vedic) Religion of the Hindu Gods alone: both are famously upa-vedas. Upa-vedas, as all Hindus know (but inculturating christians wouldn't), are famously considered along with the Vedangas as part of the Vedas: core Vedic religion. The Dhanurveda is an upaveda belonging to the Yajurveda, and Ayurveda is an upa-veda of the Rig Veda (like the famous upa-veda on music belongs to the Samaveda etc).

Even Phillip Zarrilli's 1979 journal article "Kalarippayatt, Martial Art of Kerala" is forced to admit that Kalarippayattu originates from the Dhanurveda & Ayurveda.

It is clearly an exclusively *Hindu*-religious martial art. And no amount of Varghese resorting to the desperate "my ancestor did it, so your arguments are baseless" is going to change that.
His ancestor's dabbling was all the argument Varghese could muster and *that's* what was clearly baseless. And I didn't even mention the Kalari-Devas yet:
Nemo
26/07/2012 06:57:04
II - Varghese threatens to do pooja to the Kalaridaivangal, pretending they aren't Hindu when they are all *documented* Vedic=Hindu Gods
2. Varghese threatened: "We do pooja for "Kalaridaivangal"

All of which are *Hindu* Gods who specifically have nothing to do with the non-existent jesus and christianism:

Zarrilli admits in the previously-mentioned journal article: "The presiding deity of the kalari, KALARI BHAGAVATI (the deity of war)... Other deities often include NAGABHAGAVATI (SERPENT god), GANAPADI (elephant god), the pitham or tripod (representing past gurus), and antimahalan and vettaykkorumakan (incarnations of SIVA). ... The RITUAL LIFE of the KALARI CENTRES AROUND DAILY WORSHIP OF THE DEITIES, as well as special observances on days auspicious for the particular kalari. As custodians of the art of war, the gurukkal is entitled to the same respect as the deities, a tradition popularly believed to extend to the teachers of the DHANUR VEDIC TRADITION, such as DRONA (the Pandavas' teacher in the Mahabharata)."

[Note: The Kalari Bhagavati is the Devi, Shiva's wife. Ganapadi and Siva are spelling variations on Ganapati and Shiva. Nagabhagavati is another Vedic God like the Sarparaja is. Drona, the Guru of the Dhanurveda mentioned, is another exclusively Vedic Hindu.]

Varghese, your bible does not permit you to worship other Gods (remember commandment #1).
And you're barred from the Hindu side too: Hindus don't want christians dabbling in our sacred Vedic (Hindu) religion, let alone doing pretend poojas to our Hindu Gods which your bible despises.
Therefore, if you want to continue with it, you'd first revert completely to Hindu religion and think no more about jesus.
Can't have it both ways.

You're welcome to revert properly. Just as you're free to stay back in christianism. But you're NOT allowed to continue playing the hypocrite: inculturating on=terrorising others' sacred practices while also breaking your own biblical commandments in doing so.
Nemo
26/07/2012 06:57:04
III - Varghese imagines Syrians and Syrian christians invented trade in the southern ports: yet the Hindu south was famous for trade, manufacture & wealth since long before
3. "Syrian Christians never came as refugees. They are traders."
Varghese declaring it matter-of-factly doesn't make it any more true: historians--many of them western--have shown that Syrian christians did indeed arrive as refugees. Even the thomas fiction literature make allusions to this, although IIRC they claim religious persecution in Persia led them to India. Likewise: 4th century Syrian Nestorius and his christian cult came to be considered heretic by other "truer" christians infecting the Roman empire. His gang of Nestorian christians got persecuted into north Africa & thereabouts and made their way to similarly blight India too.

And did Varghese just make reference to pre-christian Syrians' early presence in Kerala as "proof" for how Syrian *christians* (who only came into existence and arrived in India MANY centuries after 0 CE) "never came as refugees"? More absurd christian logic.
Syrian (Jews') presence and age in India has NOTHING to do with Syrian christianism. The latter merely shared geographical origins and hence followed the same trail. And went into the same line of business: settling into the pre-existing trade. But much of this trade was already famously there and created by *Hindus*: India, incl. the southern part in question, was known for affluency, which is one of the reasons why the earlier *non*-christian Syrians migrated to India. It was also why Rome traded its gold for Indian cloth materials etc made by *Hindus*, and then--famously--complained about India thus being a sink-hole for Rome's wealth.) It's also the reason why ancient middle-eastern traders and later (pre-christian Arabian) ones came to be attracted to that part of India. This was repeated later when islamised middle-easterners followed suit, just like Syrian christians had followed in the wake of earlier, non-christian Syrians. The southern ports were very famous for trade & manufacture before Syrians of any kind came to India, and even before Buddhism came south.
Nemo
26/07/2012 06:57:04
IV - Unable to give any evidence, Varghese just insinuates that Syrian christians' wealth-generation was what enabled the Padmanabha temple to build up the Sripati's treasures
4. Varghese insinuated (with 0 evidence of course) that Padmanabha's Temple treasure is owing either directly or indirectly to the alleged affluence generated by Syrian christians. What a joke. *Hindus* generated temple wealth by their *own* work--like they continue to do today--which especially included trade & manufacture; and ISN'T owing to Syrian christians' involvement in the spice trade.

Varghese's christian descendants may next pretend christians' wealth is what's been funding Hindu temples today. When, like islam, christianism is a drain on Hindu-generated donations to Temples and has always been a drain on temple wealth: from Rome under christianism (where the deliberate drain is famously credited with having systematically extincted "Paganism") to islamic looting, to colonial christian temple plunder and British giving away Hindu temple land to christians for building churches, to India today: where temples are forced to give MOST of their wealth to the "secular" cryptochristian govt which then transfers this to christians & muslims for haj/jerusalem trips. In AP under Samuel Reddy, it was even siphoned off to mass christian weddings (when all this Hindu temple money used to be used by Temples for funding mass Hindu marriages for poorer Hindus: one of the many religious Hindu Philanthropy that temples & maths provide).

Hindus are documented as donating to their Temples. Even many ancient Hindus from *all over* greater-India are famous for donating to their Padmanabha (some treasures come from Nepal even).
There've been many Temples with untold riches belonging to their Gods all over India, generated by the *Hindus* of the country. Many of these were plundered by the christian colonials and muslims. Some survived, only to get plundered in our time by a cryptochristian Indian govt (incl. DMK & Kerala's "communist" crypto regime) and to finally get regularly looted by anonymous christian & muslims converts who sell it all incl. even moorties overseas.
Nemo
26/07/2012 06:57:04
V - Varghese makes further assertions on special temple entry privileges for Syrian christians: but still gives no evidence
5. Whether Varghese's ancestors had briefly quit beef and today's trend is irrelevant. (Though if they temporarily gave up beef, this would be as part of the deal with Hindus for Syrian christians' continued stay in India: Hindu society at that time didn't willingly put up with beef-eating. Then again, some starry-eyed Hindu historians supposed Aurangzeb was against beef-eating too and was into drinking Ganga water--albeit with more supporting data than Varghese provided.)

My point however was very basic: "when even Hindus could become ritually polluted--such as by beef-eating--and thus weren't allowed into temples for these reasons (until purified), why would christians or muslims--who are considered *permanently* ritually polluted from the view of Hindu religion--be allowed in ever?" (They may freely come when they have properly reverted to Hindu religion and have been purified.)

You have given no evidence from reliable sources that Syrian christians were allowed into Hindu temples at all. Conceivably, it is not *impossible* perhaps for some stray temples--in parts of Kerala, and for a very particular time period in its history?--but without evidence the assertion is more than merely suspect. And such a violation of Agamic observances certainly did *not* happen in all Hindu temples of the region let alone without, it's simply not allowed: ritual purity is of prime importance to the Gods at Hindu temples. (Christians/muslims aren't even allowed in most Hindus' pooja rooms today, whereas native Chinese religionists are allowed. Not only because these last are of a true non-belligerent religion which is moreover Hindu-like, but also because their ritual purity observances are very similar on important points.)

6. "seems you are a Northi"
The gall of Syrian christians to use the derogatory "northi" against northern Hindus, who are natives of India unlike Varghese's Syrian gang.
But Varghese with his Mere Assertions is wrong again: I'm a native of the south.
Nemo
26/07/2012 06:57:04
VI (More Varghese) - Muziris' history is exactly what (st thomas) christianism is trying to rewrite to manufacture earlier "proof" of christianism in India
Varghese namedropped Muziris.

6. From the news:
a) 'Thiruvananthapuram: The effort made by some interested quarters to link the Muziris excavations with the visit of St. Thomas Apostle has been criticised by eminent ARCHAEOLOGIST and former DIRECTOR of the Tamil Nadu ARCHAEOLOGICAL SURVEY OF INDIA, R. Nagaswamy.

“When looking at the literature on the life of ST. THOMAS, it is not mentioned anywhere that he CAME TO INDIA. It IS ONLY A MYTH, which has now been connected with the excavations at Pattanam, near Kodungalloor,” the former visiting professor of Jawaharlal Nehru University told Express.

In fact, the ancient Muzirs port must have been located in Kodungalloor and not in Pattanam because all major ports in ancient times were situated at river mouths. And so it is safe to assume that Muziris was at Kodungalloor, where the river joins the sea.

He felt there was A HIDDEN AGENDA BY CERTAIN SECTIONS to propagate the idea that Muziris was connected to Pattanam, where St. Thomas is believed to have landed, and not with Kodungalloor.'
– Express Buzz & IBNLive, Thiruvananthapuram, August 7, 2011

b). Christians always think they can get away with lying in public:
"Include St. Thomas Church in Muziris says Bishop Dr. Joseph Karikkassery"
– Express Buzz, Paravoor, April 21, 2011

[collected at bharatabharati.wordpress.com/2011/08/07/dr-nagaswamy-nails-false-propaganda-on-st-thomas-media-report/]



7. Ah yes, the standard christian tactic when faced with facts they can't stomach:
Varghese: "I THINK Nemo is lunatic"
Facts really bother you christians, don't they? So you resort to name-calling.

Varghese: "He put forward arguements which doesnt have any base."
Oh let's see the tally:
1. All Varghese's statements were Mere Assertions
2. Most of my arguments were accompanied by verifiable supporting data. The rest *could* be supported (but not enough space here), but didn't need to be: why waste evidence on Varghese's Mere Assertions?
Siddharth
26/07/2012 02:12:13
None can claim authority of all hindus
"BTW: Ambedkar specifically hated islam and deliberately skipped over christianism completely too, in order to consciously pick Buddhism. Says something. ".

This is a truith , Ambedkar identified Buddhism as a better choice among Christianity, Islam. Under what pretext did he did that?
He wanted Dalits to leave Hinduism please read Ambedkar's take on vedic History . His poona declaration clearly pictues that. Its Ambedkar who burned Manusmruti. Its funny that casteists like nemo khatolkaja talks about ambedkar. The most laughable part is the justification of varnashram which is a blot on indian history
Nemo
24/07/2012 09:45:43
How the typical christian impersonator ("nemo.." #2) lied about who did and didn't collude with the colonisers - 1
The impersonator lied in typical christian fashion: "if you look at the colonial history, it is not difficult to see that it was always the 'so-called upper castes' in India who assisted the colonizers to run their enterprise"
In reality, the British not only wrote reams about how the Indian christians were their loyal pets, but also noted who resisted British occupation. E.g.:
1. 'The British were not wrong in their distrust of educated Brahmins in whom they saw a potential threat to their supremacy in India. For instance, in 1879 the Collector of Tanjore in a communication to SIR JAIMES CAIRD, member of the FAMINE COMMISSION, stated that “there was no class (except Brahmins ) which was so hostile to the English.” The predominance of the Brahmins in the freedom movement confirmed the worst British suspicions of the community. Innumerable CID reports of the period commented on Brahmin participation at all levels of the nationalist movement. In the words of an observer, “If any community could claim credit for driving the British out of the country, it was the Brahmin community. Seventy per cent of those who were felled by British bullets were Brahmins”.' ([Historian] Meenakshi Jain, The Indian Express, 1990. Journalist Francois Gautier appears to have quoted the last statement too.)
[So then the British tried to pull a Rwanda style internal distraction on India, as seen in the full article. A copy at ifihhome.tripod.com/articles/mj002.html ]


2. In contrast, Indian christians famously thanked their British Queen--in *documented* letters--for British rule and didn't leave it at words but actively helped the intertwined colonial-and-missionary cause (as they were programmed to do). In return, the Brits regarded their little inferior brown convert helpers most useful, and kept them fed and fat and enriched with confiscated Hindu temple lands, all while the rest of the country was starved to death in the christian famines induced by the christian colonial govt.
Nemo
24/07/2012 09:45:43
The Impersonator lied about who colluded with the British empire - 2: Brit statesmen in India admitted that they manufactured christians for treachery
hinduwisdom.info/FirstIndologists.htm
a) 'How close was the nexus between the 'neutral' British rulers and Christian missionaries? "It is not only our duty," declared Lord Palmerston, the Prime Minister, "but in our own interest to promote the diffusion of Christianity as far as possible throughout the length and breadth of India."
"Every additional Christian," declared Lord Halifax, the Secretary of the State, "is an additional bond of union with this country and an additional source of strength to the Empire."'
Source: Missionaries in India: Continuities, Changes, Dilemmas - By Arun Shourie, p.109-132
b) And it worked, as the native sheep wrote love letters--as taught by their missionary handlers--to the british queen, swearing fealty to the christian empire's colonial rule:
"We, native Christians … have embraced the Christian religion in number of 40,000 persons, presume to approach the feet of your Gracious Majesty, with all humility and reverence, presenting this humble memorial. We desire to acknowledge in your Majesty’s presence that we, your humble subjects, and all our fellow-countrymen, placed by the providence of Almighty God under the just and merciful rule of the English Government..."

As seen in (a), the Indian christians who were converted by the British etc were *manufactured* for treachery. Not unlike how US missionaries keep going to South and Central America to convert catholics to American christian cults in resented places like Cuba, to give these extra-territorial loyalties. Similarly, the protestant British converted some catholic Irish to protestantism to give them extra-ethnic loyalties.
Indian converts were just a means to an end, but they performed most marvellously. Of course, the empire died and thus no longer needs the Indian christians' treachery. So these were just left behind, the purpose of their manufacture (loyalty to the empire) expired, but not *what* they were programmed to do. As seen in the next comment.
Nemo
24/07/2012 09:45:43
The Impersonator lied about who colluded with the British empire - 3: examples of Indian christians continue to support erstwhile christian colonialism
Even today, you can still see christians speaking well of the christian colonial era.
- E.g. christian Dinesh de Souza writing apologetics for christian colonialism in Africa, India, etc in *actually* hate-filled books such as "Two cheers for colonialism", hoping to eclipse historian Will Durant's "The Case for India" with its chilling first chapter on how many tens of millions of natives--obviously not including the fattened christians, famously loyal to the christian empire and rewarded for it--had died under famines and disease owing to orchestrations by the christian colonial government. Since the numbers were damning, and especially as these numbers were but the tip of the iceberg (since they only reveal what the christian British themselves had bothered to collect), Britain banned Durant's book. It was as desperate to hide (because unable to refute) the FACTS of the genocide they committed, as the christians Siddharth & The Impersonator are to hide the genocide of Indians by post-independence christianism, and who likewise hoped to gag facts on christianism at HK.
- And there's *still* a sizeable number of christians in Gomantak who declare that Goa is independent, speak of "Indians" as a separate species and that it was India who "invaded" not liberated Goa from the Portuguese occupation, and even argue that the inquisition was a good thing. But then, Indian christians were manufactured for treachery. And their religion requires it of them far more than even their colonials masters did.

One knows Impersonator can't be raised in India, else he'd have been educated with the spelling used in India. A tip for the impersonator to help it not give its region/education (foreign origins?) away: India uses *British* English spelling--"colonisers" not "colonizers" (e.g. collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/coloniser). Next time you pretend to be an Indian from India, remember little things like that. People like me all the way up to even Koenraad Elst notice.
Nemo
24/07/2012 09:45:43
The Impersonator (Nemo#2) lied - 4: Rwanda is where the colonials were able to create classes of colluders, since all Rwandan communities were converted
3. Or maybe the Impersonator is not a typically insidious christian liar but merely confusing India with Rwanda? Rwanda, where colonial missionaries were able to collude easily with converted Tutsis in order to "manage" the equally converted Hutus. Then the missionary colonials switched over to support Hutu indignation against the till-then privileged Tutsis, to make sure neither side ever got ideas about "independence" from their real enemy (christian occupation). Decades later, this resulted in the christianism-inspired genocide of one Rwandan by the other.
Didn't you know the Rwandan genocide was manufacted by christianism (and not merely carried out by numerous nuns and priests)?
Then you really must read the Timothy LONGMAN paper (VASSAR COLLEGE) "CHRISTIAN CHURCHES AND GENOCIDE IN RWANDA"
at faculty.vassar.edu/tilongma/Church&Genocide.html, prepared for the "Conference on Genocide, Religion, and Modernity" (United States Holocaust Memorial Museum)
No doubt The Impersonator (Nemo #2) thinks that's another "hate-filled" site? Of course he does. In christians' opinion anything that exposes the distasteful *facts* of christianism is "hate-filled". Especially sites quoting famous historians, posting news articles, even conversion stats from christian sites.



Nemo#2 declared that Hindus should quit India when they cease to tolerate ruthlessly-intolerant christianism. But from the news links addressed to Santhosh below, it's clearly *christianism* which can't tolerate others and so has been massively genociding & ethnically cleansing the native religionists of Nagaland/Tripura/Meghalaya/Arunachal/Assam to make each state "for christ". Since Nemo#2 insisted one side take a hike, anyone reasonable can see which side that should be. Also, the native religionists were in the right country all along: there *were* no christians in India before. Christianism invited itself, as always--for advancing its "great mission". So why should native religionists move?
Nemo
24/07/2012 09:45:43
Siddharth, like a typical cryptochristian, tries the "caste" diversionary tactic again to conceal documented christian genocide
In order to save face for christianism, cryptochristian Siddharth pleaded desperately: "Nemo, let me ask to desist from copy paste here the same para again and again ."
This is a *Hindu* site. Your gagging orders don't work here. Deal with it. (Why do you cryptochristians keep insinuating yourselves here, btw?)
Besides, it was your co-religionists Santhosh & Varghese who pleaded that I provide evidence and substantiation. So I generously did.



Siddharth, like other christians, doesn't want the reality of christianism to be exposed: that it is a terrorist ideology that *continues* to commit genocide. Like most cryptochristians (e.g. Sahya), Siddharth resorts to the christian tactic of namedropping "caste" whenever the genocidal reality of christianism is brought up, in the hopes that "caste" will divert attention from the mass ethnic cleansing & genocide perpetrated by christianism in India's northeast.

This behaviour exposes the cryptochristians and shows up how all their pretended concern about "caste" and "dalits" and "tribals" is hot air: they don't give a hoot about the regular massacre of the native religionists in India's northeast (many of whom are Vanavasis), as these mass-deaths is exactly what the cryptochristians hope to hide stifle.


It's not fault finding. It is MASS(IVE) CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. IT'S GENOCIDE. BY CHRISTIANISM.
But christians are NEVER sorry for the genocide, they just don't want people to find out that christianism is to blame. Note how christians pretend the victims are criminals by describing the victim population's references to the genocide as "finding fault with Others". Note how, by this means, christianism insists it is free to commit genocide, and that the only crime is for victims to dare make public that christianism did it.

BTW: Ambedkar specifically hated islam and deliberately skipped over christianism completely too, in order to consciously pick Buddhism. Says something.
Ghatotkacha Nair
23/07/2012 21:38:41
Defenders of faith
It is good that people like Nemo are coming forward to defend their ancient faith and disproving the Gandhian axiom that "Hindus are cowards ...".
Hindus do not require the slaves of the Missionary-Mullah-Marxist cabal to tell them what to do.
The very life-blood of our society flow through of Vedas, Upanishads, Darsanas, and the Bhagavat Geeta. The unjust and unethical criminal agents of the MMM cabal will soon face the wrath of organized Hindus and these converted and other slave-minded people acting as agents of our enemies will soon be put in their place.
Ghatotkacha Nair
23/07/2012 21:33:41
Siddharth and his slave-mindedness
Does "Siddharth" think that he has monopoly over finding fault with others? Or does he think that Nemo has no right of defense?
Vidura
23/07/2012 12:07:16
Don't spread hatred
Let us love one another and live as Indians. Live and let live. Never think that my religion is superior. Hindus have been most generous. They still are generous. No conversions one way or the other. Love yourself and love others.Our enemies are at the fence. Let us take care to protect our country. Speak well. Think well. Conversion solves no problems. Look at all-Muslim Pakistan. Study from history.
Thank you.
Siddharth
23/07/2012 05:54:43
Nemo
Nemo, let me ask to desist from copy paste here the same para again and again . The only outcome you end up doing is to make the comments readable by none!.under 'nemo', 'does'nt matter...' etc . instaed you think , how you can bring changes in Hindu society . Attrocities has happened in the past and present, Not only by christians , worst is perperated by caste hindus on dalits and other communities. Even now if you open a day's page you can see descrimination in all walks of life in the name of caste. Its Hindu who is a worst enemy of Hindu , the messiah of masses Ambedkar was worst critic of Hinduism why ? please think about and try to bring about some positive changes instead of finding fault with others
Nemo
22/07/2012 11:27:40
For Santhosh, who asked "tell one instant where a christian terrorist is caught!!" - 1
Sure. A *few* news reports about the Famous christian terrorist groups operating in India's northeast (e.g. NLFT, NSCN, NDFB) follow.

1. news.BBC.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/717775.stm
Apr 2000: "The NLFT is accused of forcing Tripura's indigenous tribes to become Christians and give up Hindu forms of worship in areas under their control. Last year, they issued a ban on the Hindu festivals of Durga Puja and Saraswati Puja. The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the KINGDOM OF GOD AND CHRIST IN TRIPURA."

2. web.archive.org/web/20050326192950/http://www.assamtribune.com/aug2304/ne1.html
Aug, 2004 "Arunachal Buddhists allege militants harassment" - Assam Tribune online
"The twin militant outfits, NSCN(IM) and NSCN(K) have demanded annexation of land from the Buddhist and other indigenous faith followers of Rima Putak, Thikhak Putak, Motongsa and Longchong villages in Tirap – Changlang district in Arunachal Pradesh and issued a DECREE FOR THEIR CONVERSION TO CHRISTIANITY. The militant outfits have left the villagers with TO OPTIONS – EMBRACE CHRISTIANITY OR face CAPITAL PUNISHMENT."

3. sinlung.com/2010/10/buddhists-under-threat-to-embrace.html
Oct 2010 "Buddhists Under Threat to Embrace Christianity in Arunachal Pradesh"

4. assamtribune.com/scripts/detailsnew.asp?id=feb1911/city06
Feb 2011, GUWAHATI: Demo today against religious conversion
'the tribes following Hinduism and other religions are being forced to adopt Christianity. ...the vested interest groups are taking the help of separatist organisations to pressurise people for conversion.
“We have got the proofs that both NSCN (IM) and NSCN (K) groups are helping these vested interest groups to realise their goal. As a result, the Hindus and other people living in the bordering areas are facing the threat to their lives and property”'

Cont.
Nemo
22/07/2012 11:27:40
For Santhosh, who asked "tell one instant where a christian terrorist is caught!!" - 2
5. Even wikipedia still admits (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Front_of_Bodoland)
"The National Democratic Front of Bodoland, also known as NDFB or the Bodo Security Force, is a terrorist outfit which seeks to obtain a sovereign Bodoland for the Bodo people in Assam, India. The founder of the organization, Ransaigra Nabla Daimary, alias Ranjan Daimary has been arrested and detained by Indian authorities. Though NDF advocates sovereignty for Bodos, however, majority of its members are Christians, who themselves do not represent majority indigenous Bodos."

6. The Christian Love Crusade goes on at gunpoint in the northeast, against "tribals"--code for unconverted natives. Unlike islam, christianism has even made a lucrative business of it: native women raped at gunpoint by the NLFT to make porn movies that FUND further christian terrorism:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4190570.stm
Aug, 2005 "India rebels 'making porn films'"
"Rebels in India's north-eastern state of Tripura are making pornographic films to RAISE MONEY FOR THEIR SEPARATIST campaign, officials say.
The information has come from surrendered guerrillas of the National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), according to police. They say the rebels are forcing captured tribal women, and some men, to take part in the films.
The former guerrillas of the NLFT have told police their leaders not only sexually abused scores of tribal girls recruited into the rebel army but also used them - and some male guerrillas - to produce scores of porn films, officials say."

And as per even a 2004 AFP article ("Christian Terrorists Kill 44, Wound 118 in Attacks in Northeast India"): by 2004, the fatality count was 50,000 Indian victims of christian terror compared to islam's 20,000.

Now Santhosh, having got your answer, if you hereafter pretend (like Satish Chandra's been doing) that christianism in India doesn't commit terrorism, all will know you to be a liar (as all may know SChandra to be).
Nemo
22/07/2012 11:27:40
Satish Chandra alleges that it's *Hindus* who "keep on voting anti-India political parties to power" - 1
bharatabharati.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/have-hindus-already-been-defeated-gautam-sen/

where Gautam Sen writes the following (better to read the original in full):

"There is an unspoken seeming conviction that the danger to [Hindus] and India will only arise in the shape, if it ever does, of a full-scale frontal military assault by its enemies. That seems highly unlikely because India’s adversaries have found an infinitely less troublesome way of SEIZING INDIA and finishing off Hindus and Hinduism once-and-for-all. The ADVANCE BY STEALTH, subverting India BY MANIPULATING ITS ELECTORAL POLITICS is now well advanced and accelerating because success in seizing its executive governance has proved extraordinarily easy.
...greater determination to consolidate the ongoing usurpation of the Indian State apparatus and advance even more rapidly. INDIA IS BEING LOST BIT BY BIT, with HINDUS BEING EXPELLED FROM BORDER REGIONS AND WHOLE AREAS of cities beyond official administrative access, even for undertaking a proper census. An entire swatch of States, across the Indian heartland as well as its border regions, has SUCCUMBED TO political ISLAM AND CHRISTIAN imperial stratagems. These areas are now governed by a political class that is only nominally Hindu and daily engaged in acts of sedition.
The anointed, quasi monarchical successor to supreme executive authority in India has declared privately that his most urgent task will be to combat alleged Hindu terror. He proposes, in effect, to wage war against India’s Hindus by fabricating canards, already a phenomenon in recent years.
...the entire SOUTH OF INDIA has become Christianised and/or Islamised in all but name. The ATHEISM ESPOUSED by its execrable POLITICIANS is a mere CHURCH-INSIPRED PLOY to keep Hindus at bay UNTIL an appropriate moment arrives to REVEAL THEIR militant CHRISTIAN LOYALTIES. The examples of the armed uprising of Nagaland and Mizoram will then be repeated, with demands for autonomy..."
Nemo
22/07/2012 11:27:40
Satish Chandra alleges that it's *Hindus* who "keep on voting anti-India political parties to power" - 2
bharatabharati.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/a-hindu-calamity-gautam-sen/
Gautam Sen again:
"And now the Congress party has precipitated a swingeing political imbroglio in India that threatens to accelerate the coup de grace being administered to Hindus. Its suspect President, [the faithful catholic] Sonia Gandhi has joined hands with Manmohan Singh, a privately-owned prime minister all of her own, to facilitate A NEFARIOUS ALLIANCE OF ISLAMIC JIHADIS AND CHRISTIAN EVANGELISTS FOR A FINAL ASSAULT AGAINST HINDU INDIA."

Contained in that last quotation is also the summary answer to Satish's question of why Hindus would "blame [christianism] for the rise of Terrorist activities all over the country?"
Satish won't like the answer let alone accept its truth. But it's meant for Hindus to read--who are the sole target audience of HK.
Note: as becomes apparent from many of his other comments on HK, Satish is christian, despite keeping a very Hindu name as typical cryptochristians do.
As for Satish' questions on christian terrorism, that was elaborately answered earlier on, with copious reference to news sources, at haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=15527/"Goa Christians Accept BJP"
Even so, Satish continues to feign ignorance and innocence in order to convince the onlooking public he is truly at a loss as to why Hindus would be correct to mistrust christianism as much as islam.

To add to Gautam Sens's important statements by making things more explicit and through examples:
1. Indian parties are mostly cryptochristian, as is clear in all their policies which are peculiarly anti-Hindu, and are pro-"minority" to boost the jihad which christianism is in alliance with (the christian govt needs islam as it's more numerous).
2. the christian parties ELECTED THEMSELVES to power by long-term cryptochristianism, through the muslim/"minority" votebank (flouting the "pagan" majority) and more recently made up for any difference BY RIGGING EVMs.

(Cont.)
Nemo
22/07/2012 11:27:40
Satish Chandra alleges that it's *Hindus* who "keep on voting anti-India political parties to power" - 3
3. christianism is what's provided the political, intellectual and ground support for islamic jihad:
- E.g. in a case of christian treachery that doesn't involve Susan "Arundhati" Roy: the crypto Meera Nanda works for the US "christian templeton foundation" as per Koenraad Elst. She is hired to stifle all Hindu intellectual resistance against islam and negate the ongoing Hindu genocide by islam. Besides needing islam's numbers, christianism uses a pro-islamic cloak to conceal christianisms's intentions to de-Hinduise the nation.
- Foreign christian organisations and their converted footsoldiers in India spearheaded declaring islamised (ethnically cleansed) Kashmir and christianised (ethnically cleansed) Arunachal Pradesh as not part of India. Christianism supports jihad because it regularly decreases the number of "pagan" Hindus. Christianism participates enthusiastically in the negationism of the historic islamic genocide of Hindus, and is even more silent on christian genocide of Hindus.
May 2005 article: 'There is nothing "Secular" about the "Right to Convert"' by Laura Kelly
"Operation World a missionary organization located in Carlisle UK, in *1993* showed the map of India with J&K and Arunachal Pradesh like it was to be found in some others' territory."
- India's english-language christian media keeps silent on the massive christian terror, supports islamic terror (since Hindus are usually the target, not christians) and eagerly propagated the christian govt's concoction of "Hindu terror" as an equal-equal. The cryptochristian media, taking its cue from the cryptochristian govt, also kept refusing to recognise the love jihad--happily imagining the "wretched pagans" were uniquely the victims--until churches took stock and realised their own sheep had been hit hard by their islamic allies. Then suddenly christian sheep came bleating to the Hindu RSS to help them "raise awareness".
- christian education invents a history favourable to islam and christianism
Varghese
21/07/2012 14:07:33
To Nemo
I think Nemo is lunatic and lives in a dreamy world. He put forward arguements which doesnt have any base.But his useless research to establish his stupid arguments is commentable. Anyway I will answer some of his questions.
1. Syrian Christians never came as refugees. They are traders. There is Jewish/Syrian population in Kerala cost before Christ itself. Read history part of Muziris. Syrian christians are involved in spice trade with Middle East as well as Egyptian/Roman empire since the 1st Millenium. The vast treasures now uncovered from Padmanabhapuram temple is resultant of the spice trade (we dont have any claim on this)Ref:Sukumar Azikode speach. You can see now also spice cultivation is done from Syrian christians in Kerala.
2. Syrian Christians were not beef eaters before 3 generations. I remember my grand father telling about the person first eat beef in our area. But yes we use to eat hunted meat. Now 95% of the Kerala population eat beef and they go to temple as well.
3. Syrian christians have access to temples. Even in renowed temples there were Syrian christians living nearby to purify the temple when the same is impurified with any untouchables. Above that the temple offering cultivated by untouchables first handed over to Syrian christians before it is taken to temple for puja. Even before 30 years there was exchange of procession equipment between churches and temples. Our family even took the procession equipment from a renowed temple in Central Kerala when there was a function. This was a healthy exchange between the communities now it become non existance due to some propaganda.

4. Regarding Kalaripayattu your argument is absolute baseless. My great grand father was a renowed Kalaripayattu expert who served with Travancore army. We do pooja for "Kalaridaivangal"
Mr. Nemo I dont know where you located but seems you are a Northi but try to understand things properly than thinking everything on prejudice. Good luck!
Nemo
20/07/2012 08:51:29
I - The Bits that Varghese leaves unsaid: Yes, the Portuguese christians didn't like the Syrian kind. Fact remains: the Syrian christians invited them to invade all the same
1.True,Syrian christians regretted inviting their Portuguese brothers-in-christ over,as explained in this continuation from a previous excerpt:

ishwarsharan.wordpress.com/chapters/chapter-nine/

'THE SYRIAN CHRISTIANS WOULD SOON COME TO GRIEF FOR THEIR TREACHERY. THE PORTUGUESE REGARDED THEM AS HERETICS AND SCHISMATICS who were no better in “true religion” than their Hindu neighbours. They had come with cannon and a papal mandate to instruct the inhabitants of the land in the Catholic faith and this included non-Roman Christians. Their arrival and that of the first Jesuit missionary Francis Xavier, in 1542, turned Christianity in India into a violent and destructive political force that continues to operate in the country till today.

After 1502, the SYRIAN CHRISTIANS AND ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH EMBARKED ON A CONFRONTATION. It went on for decades and was aggravated by the activities of the Jesuits. In 1653 a Syrian bishop was burned at the stake at Goa by the Inquisition — it had been invited into the country by Francis Xavier himself though he did not live long enough to savor the horrifying drama it unleashed in Goa. The confrontation only began to subside with the decline of Portuguese power, as the Pope and the Jesuits were both dependant on Portuguese arms to enforce their will. A compromise was eventually reached between the Catholic Church and the Syrian Christians, and various oriental rite churches came into being. But whatever the arrangements or relationship with Rome, the Jesuits, true to their evil genius, had succeeded in destroying the Syrian Christian community in India. There is some justice in this fate, for had the Syrian Christians remained true to their adopted country and Hindu king, they would have remained a happy, respected and united community.'

Just deserts.But no need to pretend that Syrian christians were innocent in the affair merely because their treachery didn't work out well for them & they got betrayed by their own scheming.
Nemo
20/07/2012 08:51:14
II - Even Swiderski's journal article on Kerala christian "Northists and Southists" shows Syrian christians' casteism in India evolved from their SYRIAN racial purity obsession
The above is quite like how islam's scouting party---the Sufis--invited islam to invade India to get the natives to convert at last. But the Sufis, like the Syrian christians, soon became sorry for their scheming too: Sufis were considered heretics by the more 'true' muslims that invaded.

2. "Sadly", Kalaripayattu can't be inculturated on again: specifically originates in Vedic religion and directly involves the Vedic (=Hindu) Gods *alone*. Not the non-existent jesus/allah or its followers.

3. Historical European writers (incl. christian missionaries) documented the Syrian christian refugees in India as being the Most Casteist group in India. And the Most Racist too: these christians were by all accounts very hung up on something they regarded as Syrian "pure blood" (resulting in a lot of deadly warring denominations of converts, all vying for the title of pur-er blood).

An example of a JOURNAL ARTICLE that ends up revealing how Syrian christians' casteism in India evolved from their SYRIAN racial purity obsession/racism:

"Northists and Southists: A Folklore of Kerala Christians, Richard Michael Swiderski, Asian Folklore Studies, Vol. 47, No. 1. (1988), pp. 73-92."
EXCERPTS AT @ india-forum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1494-thomas-in-india-history-of-christianism-in-india/page__view__findpost__p__68053

This also ends up being a further example of Syrian christian proclivities for myth-making, and how they kept evolving their numerous origin myths to suit circumstances, i.e. lying. Comparable to their numerous sequential claims over the ages on who it was that executed the non-existent St Thomas: first while Syrian christians were in Persia it was to be a Persian King, then when they came to India the culprit was to have been a Hindu King, then a Hindu fisherman/hunter, then a Hindu brahmana. Tailored to blame the native religions being missionised. When in reality St Thomas was repeatedly shown to have never existed, so no one could have killed him.
Nemo
20/07/2012 08:49:49
III - The Bits that Varghese leaves unsaid: yes, the Hindus were stupidly magnanimous to christians. Fact remains: christians reciprocated by breaking Hindu temples
4. It's not beyond *Hindu* kings to stupidly have built christian churches and given grants for this. (Hindus often unwittingly built buildings for ingrates & enemies.) It's owing to naivete. But that reflects on *Hindu* goodwill. And doesn't negate how christians--like muslims--are famous for destroying Hindu temples. Hindus' naivete is ending as more learn what christianism/islam did to Temples in India and around the world.

5. It's well-known that Hindu Kings accorded the undeserving Syrian christian refugees many rights. (Hindu Kings in Kerala equally stupidly accorded the "mapilai" muslims too many rights.) It remains an equal Fact that, despite all the magnanimity that Hindus lavished on the immigrant Syrian christians, those undeserving ingrates time and again betrayed the native Hindus and the Hindu nation--like christianism has ever done. It's another matter that their own christian brethren made them sorry for it.

This christian behaviour of TREACHERY IS to be expected though, as they're COMPELLED BY THEIR CHRISTIANISM to work for christ's purpose/the bible: to get all nations to submit/convert. Reprise from ishwarsharan.wordpress.com/chapters/chapter-nine:
'K.M. Panikkar, in Malabar And The Portuguese, writes, “More than this, they suggested to [Vasco da Gama] that with their help he should conquer the Hindu kingdoms and invited him to build a fortress for this purpose in Cranganore. This was the recompense which the Hindu rajas received for treating with liberality and kindness the CHRISTIANS in their midst.”
The SYRIANS HAD OF COURSE ACTED ON THE EXIGENCIES OF THEIR CHRISTIAN RELIGION, which harbours in its heart a demon that divides mankind into friend and foe on ideological grounds. King Shapur II of Persia had not been mistaken about the allegiances of his Christian subjects in the fourth century.'
Nemo
20/07/2012 08:37:55
VI - When even Hindus tainted with beef-eating lost access to Hindu temples, by what miracle would christians (Syrian or even local) have come by this "right"?
6. It goes without saying that Syrian christians or christians of any sort specifically never had access to "every" Hindu temple at all. Even claiming this right to have existed at any particular Hindu Temples in Kerala becomes suspect: even beef-eating Hindus (for example) were still uniformly ostracised from Hindu society until recent times, and definitely banned from Hindu temples (something the christians from Portugal picked up on, and therefore smeared Hindus' lips with beef in one of their famous forced-conversion schemes, as is well-documented by even christian historians). Now when Hindus who become ritually-polluted weren't allowed in Hindu temples--until purified--how likely is it that Hindu temples would countenance christians who ARE ritually-polluted? In the past, Hindus performed purification rites whenever it was discovered christians or muslims had visited or attacked or otherwise defiled a Hindu Temple. (The ancient Romans thought christians were ritually polluted also, for building basilicas and worshipping corpses.)

Any "proof" Varghese wants to furnish on this must be unsuspect and conclusive: not from dubious wikipedia nor Syrian christian sources, since the latter frequently claim far more rights were granted them than is true (despite being granted too much already). E.g. a popular engraving which Syrian christians frequently refer to--to claim that it showed a Hindu King had granted them various properties and rights--was famously exposed as a late forgery. Clearly concocted to further their interests.

Finally, christians--like muslims--need not consider themselves welcome to Hindu temples. Not until they properly revert to the religion of the Hindu Gods and denounce the jesus/allah fiction.
Nemo
19/07/2012 08:06:54
IV - Even Swiderski's journal article on Kerala christian "Northists and Southists" shows Syrian christians' casteism in India evolved from their SYRIAN racial purity obsession
FASCINATING EXCERPTS from JOURNAL ARTICLE:

"Northists and Southists: A Folklore of Kerala Christians, Richard Michael Swiderski, Asian Folklore Studies, Vol. 47, No. 1. (1988), pp. 73-92."

@ india-forum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1494-thomas-in-india-history-of-christianism-in-india/page__view__findpost__p__68053


All Hindus really ought to read the excerpts at that link, as such articles inadvertently EXPOSE THE LIE of Varghese and other christians.

SUMMARY:
"Several things to be noted on the excerpts:
(1) There are two groups of the early community of Syrian Christians in India. They had long been divided into the Southist (Knanaya) and Northist sides. Both sides have numerous myths explaining their origins and the origin of the division.
(2) Both sides try to say they are racially pure and claim the other is 'low' ('low-caste' origins and even [Biblical Canaanite] slave origins, or derived from Thomas' concubine or even someone else's concubine).
(3) These two subsects of Syrian christians in India have long been arguing within themselves, like christians have been doing all over the world. Europeans in India have written on their disputes which sometimes led to one side killing members of the other.
(4) Both look down on 'low-caste' converts and think it is a slight to have any in their ancestry. So much for christianity having always been for equality."

A further important point is revealed in the excerpts at the link:
(5) Nowadays Syrian christians, and the newer (all-Indian) converts among claiming some relation to them, specifically try to downplay their bitter historical and long-lasting infighting in a truce of a pretended united-front they consciously entered into. Because both sides aim to harvest Hindu souls for their mental ideology of christianism headed by its non-existent central character "jesus christ". They need this pretence of unity for claiming christianism has nothing to do with division, discrimination let alone caste.
Nemo
19/07/2012 07:39:00
V - Even Swiderski's journal article on Kerala christian "Northists and Southists" shows Syrian christians' casteism in India evolved from their SYRIAN racial purity racism
(Cont. directly from the above comment)

As I recall, the "origins" Syrian christians originally used to furnish was of one group of their kind being of an "uber-race" derived from Thomas and his Syrian wife, vs the other group of Syrian christians being "inferior" for being derived from Thomas and his Canaanite concubine. (Canaanites were slave according to the bible's racist views.)

Then, they decided to rework the myth: the "inferior" Syrian christians were to have derived from Thomas and an Indian "concubine" instead. All because the Syrian christians' "pureblood" racial obsession made them regard Indians as inferior to Syrians.

Next, they decided they'd given the other Syrian christian group an upperhand, as these could claim to have more "right" to India via the invented native ancestress. So they decided neither of Thomas' invented wives were Syrian after all, but that one was a "high-caste" Indian convert and the other a "low-caste" Indian convert.

And so the christian myth-making went on and on and on, both sides trying to slander each other and outdo the other in inventing a "better" pedigree for themselves and a more "inferior" one for the other.

In all of this, each side insisted they were of pure(r) blood. And moreover traced this obsession back to their Antiochan Patriarch (in Syria) insisting they retain their "racial purity". This christian racism is why they looked down their noses at Indians in general and, needless to say, at "low castes" regarding their foreign selves as "high". This, despite christianism claiming it has no castes let alone casteism. They have casteism alright, but theirs evolved from their Syrian christian racism.

If they properly reverted to their ancestral Hellenistic religion of the Olympic Gods they'd not be a constant threat of treachery. The problem is--as it ever was--their christianism.
Nemo
19/07/2012 06:24:00
I - The Bits that Varghese leaves unsaid: Yes, the Portuguese christians didn't like the Syrian ones. Fact remains: the Syrian christians invited them to invade all the same
1.True,Syrian christians regretted inviting their Portuguese brothers-in-christ over,as explained in this continuation from a previous excerpt:

ishwarsharan.wordpress.com/chapters/chapter-nine/

'THE SYRIAN CHRISTIANS WOULD SOON COME TO GRIEF FOR THEIR TREACHERY. THE PORTUGUESE REGARDED THEM AS HERETICS AND SCHISMATICS who were no better in “true religion” than their Hindu neighbours. They had come with cannon and a papal mandate to instruct the inhabitants of the land in the Catholic faith and this included non-Roman Christians. Their arrival and that of the first Jesuit missionary Francis Xavier, in 1542, turned Christianity in India into a violent and destructive political force that continues to operate in the country till today.

After 1502, the SYRIAN CHRISTIANS AND ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH EMBARKED ON A CONFRONTATION. It went on for decades and was aggravated by the activities of the Jesuits. In 1653 a Syrian bishop was burned at the stake at Goa by the Inquisition — it had been invited into the country by Francis Xavier himself though he did not live long enough to savor the horrifying drama it unleashed in Goa. The confrontation only began to subside with the decline of Portuguese power, as the Pope and the Jesuits were both dependant on Portuguese arms to enforce their will. A compromise was eventually reached between the Catholic Church and the Syrian Christians, and various oriental rite churches came into being. But whatever the arrangements or relationship with Rome, the Jesuits, true to their evil genius, had succeeded in destroying the Syrian Christian community in India. There is some justice in this fate, for had the Syrian Christians remained true to their adopted country and Hindu king, they would have remained a happy, respected and united community.'

Just deserts.But no need to pretend that Syrian christians were innocent in the affair merely because their treachery didn't work out well for them & they got betrayed by their own scheming.
Nemo
19/07/2012 06:23:06
II - The Bits that Varghese leaves unsaid: yes, the Hindus stupidly built christian churches for the christians. Fact remains: christians reciprocated by breaking Hindu temples
(Cont. from above)
The last point above is quite like how islam's own scouts in India--the Sufis--invited islam to invade India to get the natives to convert at last. But the Sufis like the Syrian christians soon became sorry for their scheming too: the Sufis were considered heretics by the more 'true' muslims that invaded. But christianism and islam are so similar, they naturally behave similarly, including in treachery and pursuing heresy.

2. Yes, *Hindu* kings would have stupidly built christian churches and given grants for this (Hindus often built buildings for ingrates & enemies). It's owing to naivete.
Like individual muslims have at times been invited to Hindu temples too by naive Hindus. But that reflects on *Hindu* goodwill. And doesn't negate how christians--like muslims--are famous for destroying Hindu temples.

Syrian christians or christians of any sort never had access to "every" Hindu temple at all. Must have been Kerala temples, or only some particular ones even there.
I hope varghese and other christians/muslims don't imagine they continue to have right of access to Hindu temples anymore, regardless of what the cryptochristian government may try to dictate. (The same christian government that favours impounding Hindu temple money--meant for Hindu Temples--and donating this to subsidise Haj/Jerusalem trips etc for christians and muslims.)

The time for Hindus' naivete is over. History has documented what christianism-islam has done to the temples of the ancient (legitimate, pre-christian) religions all over the world. And Hindus are at last taking note of that history. Just like more Hindus are becoming aware of how christians in India--including Syrian christians--have destroyed Hindu temples and built churches over the Hindu sites including using temple rubble from vandalised Hindu temples. (Christian temple-breaking in India is just a historical *fact*, just like christian terrorism in India remains a *reality* to this day too.)
Nemo
19/07/2012 05:14:01
II - The Bits that Varghese leaves unsaid: Yes, Syrian christians are DOCUMENTED to have been the most casteist group in India, but deriving from Syrian christians' "pure blood" RACISM
3.Yes, historical European writers (incl. christian missionaries) documented--see JStor--how the Syrian christian refugees in India were the Most Casteist group in India. And the Most Racist too: these christians were by all accounts very hung up on something they regarded as Syrian "pure blood" (resulting in a lot of deadly warring denominations of converts, all vying for the title of pur-er blood).

4.Again: yes, it is Very well-known that Hindu Kings accorded the Syrian christian refugees immense rights. (Hindu Kings in Kerala equally stupidly accorded the "mapilai" muslims too many rights.) It remains an equal Fact that, despite all the magnanimity that Hindus lavished on the immigrant Syrian christians, those undeserving ingrates time and again betrayed the native Hindus and the Hindu nation--like christianism has ever done. It's another matter that their own christian brethren made them sorry for it.

This christian behaviour of TREACHERY IS to be expected though, as they're COMPELLED BY THEIR CHRISTIANISM to work for christ's purpose/the bible: to get all nations to submit/convert. Reprise from ishwarsharan.wordpress.com/chapters/chapter-nine:
'K.M. Panikkar, in Malabar And The Portuguese, writes, “More than this, they suggested to [Vasco da Gama] that with their help he should conquer the Hindu kingdoms and invited him to build a fortress for this purpose in Cranganore. This was the recompense which the Hindu rajas received for treating with liberality and kindness the CHRISTIANS in their midst.”
The SYRIANS HAD OF COURSE ACTED ON THE EXIGENCIES OF THEIR CHRISTIAN RELIGION, which harbours in its heart a demon that divides mankind into friend and foe on ideological grounds. King Shapur II of Persia had not been mistaken about the allegiances of his Christian subjects in the fourth century.'

5.Sadly, Kalaripayattu can't be inculturated on again: originates in Vedic religion & directly involves the Vedic(=Hindu) Gods. Not the non-existent jesus/allah.
Varghese
18/07/2012 05:09:31
To Nemo
Syrian christians are the first one to revolt against Portughese in India. Read "Konnan Kurishum Sathyam". European collonisation actually diluted our social staus, see below extract from "Wikipedia" "In the social stratification of medieval Malabar, Syrian Christians succeeded in relating their social status with that of upper-caste Hindus on account of their influence and observance of many Brahmin customs.In 13th and 14th century, many Syrian Christians were involved in the pepper trade for the local rulers and many were appointed as port revenue officers. The local rulers rewarded them with grants of land and many other privileges. They had the right to recruit and train soldiers and Christian trainers were given with the honorary title "Panikkar" like their Nair counterparts.They were also entitled with the privilege to collect the tax, and the tax-collectors were honored with the title "Tharakan". Like Brahmins they had the right to sit before the Kings and also to ride on horse or elephant, like the royals.They were protectors of seventeen underprivileged castes and communities and hence they were called Lords of Seventeen Castes.They did not allow the lower-castes to join their community for fear that it could imperil their upper-caste status. Between 9th and 15th centuries, Syrian Christians had a small kingdom of their own, viz. Villarvattom, but this regal period came under extinct and the community fell under the power of Rajas of Cochin and Travancore. They owned a large number of Kalaripayattu training centers and the Rajas of Travancore and Cochin, including the renowned Marthanda Varma, recruited trained Christian warriors to defend their kingdom.The upper-caste Hindus and Syrian Christians took part in one another's festival celebrations and in some places in Kerala, the Hindu Temples and Syrian Christian Churches were built on adjoining sites by the Hindu Kings. Until the 19th century, Syrian Christians had the right of access to Hindu temple
Nemo..
18/07/2012 03:56:39
mathew
I am intrigued and at the same time dismayed by the hate being spewed by Nemo on Christians. Quoting from crude hate-mongering websites and passing it off as some kind of fact is pathetic too.

People like Nemo who burn and roil in their own hatred for their fellow human beings can never be happy. If he finds it intolerable to live with Christians he should quit this country and go away to somewhere, where there are no Christians. The alternative is to hate less. Tough calls, both.

To put things straight, if you look at the colonial history, it is not difficult to see that it was always the 'so-called upper castes' in India who assisted the colonizers to run their enterprise. That these upper classes were almost entirely were Hindus is secondary. It was human greed at work not religion. They almost entirely formed the steel-frame which ran the colonial administration over the natives. Ironically, it is the representatives of the very same classes who are now trying to shift the blame to others.

My request is not to spread hatred.
Satish Chandra
18/07/2012 03:33:58
Agree With Varghese
Mr.Varghese, I totally agree with you - Christians have contributed to India's growth with education and healthcare.They have always stood by India - Churches don't preach destroying India through bomb blasts or luring away of Hindu girls through Love Jehad - yet Hindus shout against Christians - it shows hindus are biggest idiots - which is why they keep on voting anti-India political parties to power, which are friends of Terrorists - going all out to help them convert India into a jehadi state!
After yesterday's murder of the student with Jehadi sword, may I ask all such Christian baiters - Would they still blame the Christians for the rise of Terrorist activities all over the country?
Hindus will become a minority in India - because they are the biggest idiots.

Satish Chandra
Nemo
17/07/2012 06:38:49
I - Varghese (=Syrian christian name) lying for gawd again: historical European sources document Syrian christians as repeated traitors to Hindus and India
1. “Going back historians have talked about them, one time refugees to Kerala from Syria. After religious persecution, like the Parsees. But recent studies have come up with shocking data. Like [HISTORIAN, anti-Hindu] Sanjay Subrahmaniam in Lisbon taking Portugese Documents ( 'Career and Legend of Vasco Da Gama') have said that it was the Syrian Christians called St. Thomaa Christians of the East by the Europeans, who brought Vasco da Gama, beginning the colonisation of India, to Kerala shores. That they had offered to the Portugese, French and British support to evict the local kings, Zamorins, who gave them refuge. Obviously the early Syrians were here for centuries, came as refugees, later more coming in. The same fact is also there in the Dutch History of Trvancore, also in the French sources. That the Syrian Christian Refugees of Kerala wanted the Europeans help them to have 'Thy Kingdom Come'.”

2. “Till the British left they were allies of the British, 'our Christian brethren in Malabar' as innumerable British documents narrate, and enjoyed all privileges. Even today they are spear heading all the conversion initiatives across India and pool in international church funds for the purpose. Several organisations in Kerala do just this.”

[Quoted from Pradeep Nair's "Great Treachery - India and the Syrian Christians of Kerala", copy at christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1109867755
which for its point references the aforementioned book--called "Career and Legend of Vasco Da Gama"--by the (anti-Hindu, I understand) historian Sanjay Subrahmaniam]

In short, history tells us that Syrian christians were treacherous ingrates.

But more on these historical facts of Syrian christian treachery to follow.
Nemo
17/07/2012 06:36:49
II - Data from historical European sources document how Syrian christians are repeated traitors to Hindus and India
3. 'K.M. Panikkar, in Malabar And The Portuguese, writes, “More than this, they suggested to [Vasco da Gama] that with their help he should conquer the Hindu kingdoms and invited him to build a fortress for this purpose in Cranganore. This was the recompense which the Hindu rajas received for treating with liberality and kindness the Christians in their midst.”
The Syrians had of course acted on the exigencies of their Christian religion, which harbours in its heart a demon that divides mankind into friend and foe on ideological grounds. King Shapur II of Persia had not been mistaken about the allegiances of his Christian subjects in the fourth century.'
[From Ishwar Sharan's book "The Myth of St Thomas" ishwarsharan.wordpress.com/chapters/chapter-nine/]

4. "Temple breaking in India seems to have originated in the 7th, 8th or 9th century with Nestorian Christian immigrants from Persia. They built churches on the broken temple foundations and then attributed the temple breaking to St. Thomas himself by claiming he built the churches in the 1st century. Franciscan, Dominican, and Jesuit priests destroyed temples in Goa, Malabar, and Tamil Nadu in the 16th century. St. Francis Xavier left a fascinating written record of his temple-breaking work on the Coromandel Coast. The Portuguese entombed the Vel Ilangkanni Amman Temple near Nagapattinam and turned it into the famous Velankanni church called Our Lady of Health Basilica. The Jesuits destroyed the Vedapuri Iswaran Temple in Pondicherry and the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception now sits on the site. The list is very long. Christians were destroying temples long before the Muslims got into the act."
[From: ishwarsharan.wordpress.com/about-us/the-ishwar-sharan-interview-with-rajeev-srinivasan/]

5. KS Sudarsan would be repeating wishful thinking OR christian propaganda he's imbibed. Just as others like him regularly declare--ALSO against all fact--that "jihadis are not practising 'true' islam".
Nemo
17/07/2012 05:37:46
III - More data showing how Varghese is lying for gawd: India conversion statistics (2005) straight from christians' mouth
6. "The 2005 edition of the World Christian Database (worldchristiandatabase.org) says that India is now 6% Christian. The government of India last conducted a census on the Indian population in 2001 said that Hindus were 81.4% of the population followed by Muslims at 12.4% and Christians at 2.3%. However, the more recent data from the World Christian Database states that Hindus are now 74% of the population and Christians are 6% of the population. The new survey claims that Catholics have grown from 1.52% of the population in 1970 to 1.66% in 2005. The recent data suggests that the rampant and aggressive conversion by Christian missionaries is much more widespread than previously acknowledged.

Religious breakdown in India according the World Christian Database:

Hindu: 74%
Muslim: 12%
Other Christian: 4%
Catholic: 2%
Sikh: 2%
All other: 5%
Not religious: 1%

Catholic population:
1970: 8,432,713 (1.52%)
2005: 18,250,000 (1.66%)"
[As it says: from the world christian database website, as at 2005. Copy at christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=NEWS&id=1114450073]

7. Christians were Traitors From The Start: betrayed the Roman Empire while this wasn't yet converted -
Historian, ex-catholic priest Joseph McCabe: 'because in proportion as the difficulties of the Empire increased, the Christians became increasingly disloyal, refusing service and almost exulting in its enfeeblement ... Professor Gwatkin himself remarks that many of the Christians, so far from being willing to defend the Empire, were "half inclined to welcome the Goths and Persians as avengers." ... Before Diocletian the Church had had forty years of peace, and it had grown sufficiently to make its anti-patriotic teaching a matter of concern.' [A copy at freetruth.50webs.org/B3b.htm]

Christianism inspiring nationalism?? No. It's ever bred treachery, lying, temple breaking, cover-up AND terrorism/genocide/ethnic cleansing of the unconverted natives (eg. Greece, Rome, India's NE).
Varghese
16/07/2012 08:13:52
Conversion
Ha Ha....Now Ravi is not found some Nemo came to answer. My question is very specific. Christian populaion in Kerala is declined from 22% 19% which is phenominal when compared to the state's demographic staus. Where is the conversion you are talking about? The converion statistics is also given by Kalakaumudi (which is a leftist pro Hindu weekly) . One Mr. Nemo try to beat around the bush and not giving any evidence to prove this propaganda. My adivce is stop this nonsence once for all do something better. Mind you Kerala christians never betrayed the country and where ever we go are committed to our motherland. This is not said by me but your RSS leader K S Sudarsan.
Nemo
16/07/2012 05:44:34
Varghese is lying for gawd by hiding how christianism has converted a great many more into cryptochristians - 1
Global christian missions regularly brag about their conversion success: such as how 6% of India was already converted by the early half of the last decade. This has largely gone under the radar because churches/missions specifically instruct converts not to publicly register their conversion and to retain Hindu names etc, all for very particular reasons:

1. So that converts to christianism can continue to leech on benefits meant exclusively for Hindu communities like Harijan, Vanavasi and others. This part of the deception-- whereby christianism continues to pretend it has no castes, but yet caste-wise steals money meant for Hindu communities--is inteded to be kept up until casteist christianism can at last implement laws to grant benefits to christian dalits etc (christianism is always afraid of losing rice christians to better deals elsewhere). All of this is to be paid for by the majority Hindu tax-payers of India, making this another machiavellian christian idea: Hindus paying money to entice more people to join the christian cancer.

2. By using Hindu names, Hindu markings like Bindi, and Hindu clothes like Sari, many crypto-christians in government seek to proscribe Hinduism under a "secular" ruse, so that christianism doesn't get implicated.
Many cryptochristians in the christian media etc attack Hindus & Hindu religion under Hindu names, so that Hindu victims may realise too late that it's the terrorist ideology of christianism attacking them.
Nemo
16/07/2012 04:24:23
Varghese is lying for gawd by hiding how christianism has converted a great many more into cryptochristians - 2
3. Everday cryptochristians, especially christian women, similarly insist on keeping up a show of outward Hindu signs--like Bindi and Sari--for the love crusade: they're instructed to marry a Hindu and baptise the kids, regardless of whether they can convert the spouse or not. This way, Hindu families are christianised both vertically and horizontally: while future generations are acquired for christianism through baptism, healthy Hindu families are penetrated by christianism--like a drop of oil in water--as christians sneak themselves into Hindu families via any member stupid enough to marry a christian (and who all ought to be as much ostracised as any 'Hindus' who marry into islam are kicked out).

4. The actual christian conversion stats are kept out of public view so that Hindus don't wake up in time to the growth rate of the christian canker.
Christian sheep will be instructed when it's time to publicly reveal their full numbers. Then they'll declare "India for Christ", as they have already done for Nagaland etc, where Hindus have been genocided and ethnically cleansed since. Within about 30 yrs, India's northeast has gone from being native religionist (with but small percentages of alien ideologies) to being predominantly christian. A demographic "success" that's entirely owing to christian terrorist outfits having used christianism's convert-and-kill routine to ethnically cleanse the native Hindus out of the region in the same order of magnitude as islam has done in Kashmir, while their collaborators in the cryptochristian media carefully avoid reporting this massive christian terrorism.

Cryptochristianism is regularly applied in unconverted nations, esp. in Asia. Even the Chinese govt has no reliable estimate of the number of converts in "underground" churches, as such christians don't declare their conversion.
pusshaan
15/07/2012 23:06:25
whats wrong
whats wrong with kerala hindus why such things r happeneing in kerala . after love jihad exposed by high court and hindu orgns r working hard , attacks on hindus xtians happeneing why still hindus r sleeping. why this gals r doing mistake and why they want that hell drainage. leaving this great culture and entering into drainage. . what parents r doing. hindus r sleeping with secularism and jihadis r ruling this state . i dont know what to express my views. no community behaves like this in world excpet hindu society. why this gals want drainage .
Varghese
15/07/2012 07:59:30
To Ravi
You fool, see the report of Kaumudi itself which shows the statistics of conversion in the state, how many people is converted to Christianity. Now it is time to stop the this "barking". If Christians wants to increase their numbers they can as well have more children instead of running after "conversion". Christian population growth rate is almost "zero" in the state well below the growth rate of Hindus and Muslims. I challenge these so called propagandians to give a concrete evidence of this conversions in Kerala which you claim is to increase the christian populaion otherwise stop this ugly propaganda. I am not bothered in other states.
Ravi
15/07/2012 00:15:56
To Varghese
Christians compensate their loss by converting from Hindus and they use all deception methods for that. (Through hundreds of denominations)
Ravi
15/07/2012 00:15:56
To Varghese
Christians compensate their loss by converting from Hindus and they use all deception methods for that. (Through hundreds of denominations)
Ravi
15/07/2012 00:15:56
To Varghese
Christians compensate their loss by converting from Hindus and they use all deception methods for that. (Through hundreds of denominations)
Ravi
15/07/2012 00:15:56
To Varghese
Christians compensate their loss by converting from Hindus and they use all deception methods for that. (Through hundreds of denominations)
Ravi
15/07/2012 00:15:56
To Varghese
Christians compensate their loss by converting from Hindus and they use all deception methods for that. (Through hundreds of denominations)
Varghese
14/07/2012 11:47:00
Conversion
"Conversion" is a huge cry of Sangh Parivar to tarnish the image of Christians in the society. See the above report how much is converted to christianity. In fact Christian populaion in the state is decreased from 22% to 19% as per Kaumudi report. First understand the realities and then shout. As far as the other topics this need to be verified in detail and take appropriate actions need to be taken without delay
Ravi
14/07/2012 07:06:57
But.......
But, for the present ruling mafia and its chair persons to remain in power support of this terror section is needed and they may establish that love jihad is done by saffron and not green. They are eager to to establish a saffron angle to balance.
"Hinduism doesn’t breed exclusivism, intolerance of other religions and disavowal of the pre-Hindu past. Unfortunately, the same is not true about proselytising religions."

Balbir K Punj

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